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Is it safe to buy Chinese equipment?


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Mr.LEO Patralli at Wenzhou Longqiang Dairy Machinery Factory

my factory is located in china, we set up our factory since1984 of dairy solution, and from 1988 involve in all the food and beverage turnkey solutions, professional in fluid one solutions, main market abroad is india, malaysia, indonesia, philipphine etc. the clients's products are exporting to USA like coconut water etc.. we are middle size factory with 3 workshops, so in the same price we got better good quality, so consultant company also send drawing for us for the manufacturing. we has the cetifications . if more questions about china's supplier's messege, you can contact me. i am clear about the market and supplier. www.facebook.com/tyutyutytyu my facebook, and if you use smartphone, you can add my wechat : [phone number]16 for detais and conveniet chatting.

Jul 9, 2014

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Kinnek Knowledge Team

Like with any other equipment you purchase, you want to make sure you do all the appropriate due diligence.  Quality Chinese manufacturers do exist so before purchasing ask your supplier to provide a few references of other people who have bought similar equipment.

Oct 3, 2013

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Marco Solferini from IC Filling Systems

Dear friend, being a supplier of Italian equipment we may be biased but here is some food for thought:

1) Chinese equipment does not use virgin food grade stainless steel, they use exclusively recycled stainless steel. 
This causes leopard patches in the performance of the steel with rusting areas alternating to non-rusty areas.
To check this use the following guideline: the Chinese selling price for their machines is LESS that the wholesale cost in Europe of the VIRGIN stainless steel.

2) Safety standards. The chinese equipment does not adopt the strict standards of operator's safety that is incorporated by European law in the CE mark legislation.

3) The Chinese are counterfeiting the CE European mark by marking their exports CE but that is in reality only meaning CE Chinese for Export and is not related to the safety European Standards.

4) Good luck with ANY warranty issues claims with Chinese based suppliers from China.

5) We have a score of African clients who have bought their first equipment on price from China and then came to us for European standards specifications.

6) If you cannot afford the cost of proper equipment by all means try Chinese as a market test but make sure you financially plan to scrap it within 18 months because it will not work after that.

7) Efficiency levels are also considerably lower than stated, that is less than 50% of what the Chinese allegedly state the machime can do per hour.

For serious Italian made filling and labeling equipment, request a quote from us here on Kinnek.
Giovanni

Nov 14, 2013

3 comments

Gani at Popson

It is very uncharitable, arrogant, bullish, ignorant and anti-business ethics to comment so much negatively about Chinese products without a justifiable proof other than hear-say. I feel executive like this needs to go for leadership coaching to enable them learn how to comment on other peoples efforts. After all the Chinese are learning and trying to excel. The so called European standard was not built in a day it was as a result of a lot of trial and error. The Chinese have been able to help a lot of small business owners all over the world to become big today through affordability in pricing and products. If not, why do we have so many products made in China in European and American stores? The same goes for the mercantilism that made Europe and America what they are today feeding on Chinese cheap labor. Cheap products are produced in China and brought to Western world with excessive mark-up and taxes resulting in huge fund available to create huge marketing jobs, pay huge bonuses to executives and build European and American economy. Yet we have some European ill-informed bigots and ignoramuses condemning Chinese products.- Popson from Canada.

May 23, 2014

Susan Sang at Degong

@Gani at Popson Thank you for speaking up for Chinese products. China has some poor quality products, because the technology is not high or buyer pay too little money so that maybe have to manufacture low quality products. But not all Chinese products are low quality. Now China is making progress, China also has a lot of good companies and good products. Thank you for your justice.

Dec 16, 2015

Susan Sang at Degong

@Marco Solferini from IC Filling System I can’t believe you can say such words about Chinese products. You don’t know China, don’t know all the efforts China made these years. you never see Chinese factory and products, Please don't make the evaluation when you never know China. You can have a good selling your products but don't attack other countries products. This behavior is ignorant and rude.

Dec 16, 2015

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Matt R from

If you choose to buy directly from China after checking references and hopefully visiting the chosen factory, make sure the equipment is inspected and approved by you or a trusted acquaintance prior to leaving China. Get manuals for all of the equipment. Get spare parts (more than you think you need). Get pictures during the loading process and take pictures during the unloading process. Once it is on the water it's yours. Best case scenario is 4 week transit time. I suggest using a U.S. freight forwarder of your choosing rather than letting the manufacturer use their forwarder. Be prepared for delays such as weather, customs inspections, dock union strikes, rail delays, shortages of containers, or truck drivers, incomplete documentation to name a few potential headaches. I would plan 4 - 7 weeks depending on where you are located in the U.S. I hope this is somewhat helpful. Cheers, Matt

Oct 29, 2013

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Jon Marco at Alpha Brewing Operations

Mr. Rennerfeldt is no longer with A.B.E. and is co-founder and President of Alpha Brewing Operations in Lincoln, NE. Alpha is the new standard of excellence and "leading the way in craft". Check us out at www.alphabrewops.com

Nov 26, 2014

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John Watt from Stout Tanks and Kettles

It comes down to knowing your supplier and having a relationship with them.  There are wildly different levels of quality, expectations, and ethics in China. 

There is significant risk in a one-off purchase.  If the seller doesn't deliver the products or warranty you don't have any real recourse.  You may not really know who you are dealing with (many Chinese companies pose as manufacturers but they are not).  There are quite a few sob stories out there from people who got badly burned by trying to buy direct from Asia.

Electrical panels and such may be dicey from China.  It won't be UL listed and may not be possible to use as a result.  

Dealing with a US based supplier can give you both the cost benefits combined with the legal protections of dealing with a US company.  Not to mention providing support when (if) you need it.  

Oct 9, 2013

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Arthur Zhang from XIMO USA

Hey, sir

we are chinese factory, as a supplier, we suggest you visit and check out the supplier's factory if you have free time, after all, it is lot of budget.

The chinese equipment have about these points: it is safety and deserve to purchase, our technical and solution sometimes not old any more.

If you are looking for supplier from china, we suggest you check them from your local place and govnment, they should have some data about factory, if your local place have same equipment, that will be great.

The three point i think it should be the details and Certification, Succeed projects, that's most important what i think. thanks. sir

Jan 8, 2017

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Arthur Zhang at Ximo USA

also it is up to what kind of manufacturer do you choose, different manufacturer, different quality, different price.

Jan 8, 2017

Arthur Zhang at Ximo USA

Any way, i hope you guys talk with a good chinese supplier.

Jan 8, 2017

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Brad Perkinson from American Beer Equipment

Not all "Chinese" equipment is created the same...

There are a few "classes" of equipment out there that comes from China.

1. Chinese-Made, Chinese-Designed, Direct shipment: These are the ones you want to avoid. There is a chance that they have no experience in the industry, and are just making tanks in bulk with little care for design, functionality, or quality. Little-to-no customer service can be expected, and the obvious language barrier is a deterrent as well..

2. Chinese-Made, Chinese-Designed, American Sold: These are tanks and equipment that are the same as the above, but stocked and sold by an American company. These are to be avoided as well due to the same issues with quality, design, and function. Customer service can be sketchy, and very little customization is available.

3. Chinese-made, American-Designed, American Sold: These are products that have been designed here in America and contracted to be built in China purely for the cost-savings. They are then shipped to America where the company performs a rigorous Quality Control inspection before approving any equipment. The raw manufactured product then goes through the American company's manufacturing process and becomes the final product. These pieces of equipment can be made to the same standards (dependent upon and differs based on the specific company) but for lower input costs that can be passed on to the customer without compromising quality, design, or functionality. Customer service is paramount and customizations are endless.

Be sure to ask so you know what you are getting!

Mar 10, 2016

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Nic Syzdek from NDL Keg

Yes for an example, Penglai Jinfu has been manufacturing world class kegs for the past 20 years, supplying the world's biggest breweries. Manufactured in an ISO 9001 factory in Penglai (Northern China) using imported spears they have become the #1 keg manufacturer in Asia and 4th largest in the world. 

As a consumer it is important to do your due diligence when making an investment for your business to operate in the long run. So the simple answer is yes, world class Chinese manufacturers do exsist. Just make sure to do your research! 

Nov 9, 2015

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Gani from Popson

It is very uncharitable, arrogant, bullish, ignorant and anti-business ethics to comment so much negatively about Chinese products without a justifiable proof other than hear-say. I feel executive like this needs to go for leadership coaching to enable them learn how to comment on other peoples efforts. After all the Chinese are learning and trying to excel. The so called European standard was not built in a day it was as a result of a lot of trial and error. The Chinese have been able to help a lot of small business owners all over the world to become big today through affordability in pricing and products. If not, why do we have so many products made in China in European and American stores? The same goes for the mercantilism that made Europe and America what they are today feeding on Chinese cheap labor. Cheap products are produced in China and brought to Western world with excessive mark-up and taxes resulting in huge fund available to create huge marketing jobs, pay huge bonuses to executives and build European and American economy. Yet we have some European ill-informed bigots and ignoramuses condemning Chinese products.- Popson from Canada.

May 23, 2014

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ELLA at Nicocuttingtools.Com

you are totally right

May 17, 2016

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Ben Pugh from Eclectic Ales

As a importer of equipment from China I have been very happy with everything that I have ordered and sold, and so have my customers. However there are many, many companies in China that do not do quality work or use quality stainless. You really need a strong relationship with the company you are buying from to be sure that what you are getting will last you for many years and not end up just a big problem. 

I will also say that most electrical inspectors wont allow control panels, or glycol chillers from China to be used here because they are not UL listed, which is why I only supply American made components for these items.

Aug 10, 2016

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Martin Liang from Jiangsu Zhengheng Light Industrial Machinery Co., Ltd.

Selection of high-quality Chinese suppliers, of course, the product is good, safe

Oct 24, 2015

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Dan Guy at Fusion Ink

chinese shit no matter what is said or done is chineses shit

May 2, 2016

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Amy Myhra from Pioneer Tank and Vessel

No, it's not safe.

There's a thousand reasons to NOT buy Chinese.  There's only one reason to do it: Price.  In the end that money saved, will be used for lost batches of beer,  repair, and replacement.  And in the end the used equipment will be pennies on the dollar if not scrap.

Try and think of the fundamental reason a vendor will source their products in China.  I can tell you it's not about quality or craftsmanship.  

It is very possible to get very high grade China made products.  China makes the iPhone and it's pretty good.  But by the time you get to that level of quality, the price advantage is gone.  So why would you lose all the benefits of buying locally for zero cost savings?  

You can't blame the Chinese for making crap.  It's USA retailers that tell them to make it cheaper.  The whole reason they're outsourcing the work in the first place.  

No, it's not safe.  It's not wise.  It's not a gamble worth taking.

-Kevin

Feb 11, 2015

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Jeremy Reed at North of 48 Brewing Co.

Pure rhetoric. 1000’s of reasons?? Name 10 - 10 that you can actually backup. The iPhone cost:quality analogy is absurd. The iPhone X costs 370$ to manufacture, and sells for 999$. The price advantage is absolutely NOT gone. It’s gone for the consumer, but it sure as hell isn’t gone for Apple!!!....and it isn’t gone for brewing equipment importers either. Apple nets 630$ per iPhone, and from what I’ve seen, most brewing equipment importers net about the same %. Having just gone through a buying experience, I can state that the savings are enormous. We’re not talking 10% here, it’s 50-60%. Will our tanks arrive made from old roof tin and mild steel from scrap yards in Texas?? No, because someone is going to lay eyes on every last inch of weld before those tanks are loaded into the seacan. This is a calculated risk. Put the broad brushes away and recognize that “Chinese” or “the Chinese” represents 4-5x more people than ‘murca, and the same land mass. There’s gonna be crap, and there’s gonna be brilliant craftsmanship. Do your homework and spend your money however you want. As far as “it’s better to have someone to sue here at home if things go wrong”.... BS!!! There’s no shortage of North American companies in all industries that are more than willing to flip you the bird, use a sentence that begins with “unfortunately”, and let you spend 4x the value of a tank in legal fees trying to chase them down to honour their warrantee. Bashing others is not the way to make ‘murca (or Italy) great again. -J.

Dec 28, 2017

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Pro-Fill Inc from Pro Fill Equipment

No not at all, first of all it probably comes with 1 yr warranty and probably doesn't even cover an part that you might be having an issue. Second of all the user manual is in probably in Chinese writing and they don't have customer service when you most need the help. 
Check out our website :
http://profillequipment.com/

Please call us directly if you have any further questions.
-Team profillequipment.com 

Jan 11, 2017

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Jack Du from PENGLAI INDUSTRIAL CORPORATION LIMITED

Many customers in America buy the machines in China they tend to check the current machines used in USA for getting the see-believing reference ; We sold many machines in the USA you can check our machines catagory at http://www.penglaichina.com/news/ ; if you want to check our machine welcome you to contact us and we can offer you the customers list for you to check our machines running in the USA . it is great ! PENGLAI INDUSTRIAL CORPORATION LIMITED www.penglaichina.com 

Nov 30, 2016

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Daris Smith from Silver State Stainless

Simply put, if you can afford USA product buy it!

Jun 28, 2016

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Jonathan Stewart from Craft Kettle Brewing Equipment

Just like any purchase, it is more important to trust the company you're working with than to judge them solely based on their location. Relationships and the legal system are easier to deal with when the company you work with is in the same country as you. China is the manufacturing capital of the world. There are thousands of companies producing brewery equipment throughout the country. It is not a good idea to purchase direct without several good recommendations and a clear understanding of the rules of international trade. I would not expect a mid-size or small company to do a good job servicing equipment that they sell for export.

May 10, 2016

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Sean from Parkrich Design

DITTO! Marco Solferini from IC Filling Systems 

Apr 20, 2016

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Joe Lutomske from ENOTOOLS

It is buyer beware like anything else. Just remember, when deadlines, quality control, and things like that come into play, cheap is expensive. 

Apr 14, 2016

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Todd Vriesenga from Microcanner

In my opinion its always better to buy from a guy who speaks your language and does not need a work permit to do "house calls":-}

Mar 16, 2016

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Dave Conner from Alliance Industrial Corporation

No!

Mar 2, 2016

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Melissa Lau from Daeyoo Tech., Co. Ltd. Wenzhou

whiskyï¼?vodka,brandy distilling equipment for sale-----DAEYOO TECH. CO., LTD.WENZHOU
Hello Sir,

We are Brewing and Distilling Equipment manufacturer located in Wenzhou city, China.

Our most common systems are designed for single distillation of GNS, for gin and vodka.Vodka column systems are capable of producing 190 proof/ Max 96%. and low to middle proof whiskey, rum, brandy etc.
Our most economical systems range from 50 US gallons to over 650 US gallons. 

Any other related stainless steel equipment can also be supplied, such as Malt Mill, Mashing fermenters, collect tanks, etc. Shipping can be quoted after send email to: [email address], to tell us your address.

Jan 10, 2016

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Martin Liang from Jiangsu Zhengheng Light Industrial Machinery Co., Ltd.

As a Chinese supplier of many years of beer equipment for customers in the United States, I think it is not all Chinese suppliers can provide good quality products, but also because of this reason, choose a quality, reliable and stable supplier will become more important, because only the selection of the supplier, the quality of equipment to be guaranteed

Nov 6, 2015

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Prima Supply from Prima Supply

It really depends on what you are looking for.  Generally Chinese equipment is made for the customer looking for economy products.  The equipment is very to cheap to buy, but there are also reasons that these products typically don't have a warranty.  While many of the products I would use myself if I were to open a restaurant, I would pick and choose the equipment that I would implement via a Chinese manufacturer.  

Generally the stainless steel tables or shelves are economy stainless steel.  This leads to surface scratching and if you are going for aesthetics, then this isn't the buy for you.  However if you are just putting them in the back of the house, in a kitchen they will do the job just fine. 

Now if you plan on ordering a piece of equipment with mechanical parts, let's say an ice machine for example, I would recommend going with a more expensive product with a good sized warranty. 

I hope this is helpful!

Oct 19, 2015

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Jerrod Hays from Cherry City Vessels [CLOSED]

I am a US manufacturer of brew equipment I have sourced parts from all over the globe. I have found suitable Chinese components and I have found complete fails.
I have seen un sanitary interior finishes in fermenters, we have dissected Chinese tanks to find insulation only around the fitting and no where else. SO its a very strong buyer beware with zero customer support after should your tanks not be suitable you have a long battle and no tanks while you resolve the issue.

Sep 23, 2015

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Josh Fast from Keg Club/Schaefer

Breakdown of our Schaefer Kegs vs Chinese.

The big difference is quality of the stainless steel and welding used to manufacture the kegs. Ourselves and our other German competitors (whom we have nothing but respect for) use German made 304 stainless steel. With lower quality stainless steel corrosion can be an issue as the keg ages, true 304 stainless steel is corrosion proof. 

Welding must be done under very strict conditions, anything but a perfect weld will allow for eventual bacterial growth in the keg. A substandard weld will have microtubules formed in the weld, which are incredibly small holes which allow bacteria a safe harbour to grow. When the kegs are cleaned the outer edge of the bacteria will be killed, but can form a plug over the remaining bacteria in the hole. This allows the bacteria to multiply and ultimately pour forth from its little home in the keg weld, spoiling your precious beverage. 

Ours and our German competitors kegs are designed to last 30+ years in service. We hear stories of Chinese manufactured kegs being very serviceable for their first few years of life, with corrosion and beer spoilage becoming more evident in 5 years or so of use. A few of the Chinese manufactured keg companies have very suspiciously German sounding names, which I think is a sign that they understand the value and quality of German made kegs. 

We understand that pricing plays a huge part in any major purchase, and are offering some of our best pricing to date these days. It can look high when compared to these other manufacturers, but investing a few more dollars per keg may save you a much larger amount a few years down the road.

Jul 26, 2015

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Linda Wang from Jinan Zhuoda Machinery Equipment Co., Ltd, China

Yes, it is safe. Firstly, the competition in China is fierce. Every supplier who want to live in the global market must improve the quality. Secondly, the market is fair, suppliers who cheat or supply bad quality products would be punished seriously.

Jun 14, 2015

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Mark Sigl from Kaps-All Packaging Systems, Inc.

Is it safe to buy Chinese Equipment?
Well it all depends on many things. There is no yes or no answer.
Items to consider:
1. What are you going to use it for.
2. What is the speed you need to run.
3. What is your price point.
4. What type of quality conserns do you need / have.
5. How long can you afford to be down.
6. Is there a dealer in your area.
7. Have you talked with other company,s that have their equipment.
8. The list goes on, do your do diligents.
Most companies that have purchased Chinese equipment are delited from a purchasing point of view. (Low Cost) Purchasing did there job.
Now talk with production and Maintenance.
They run good for a couple of months, then Production starts to fade. 
(Be carefull of what speed they quote, most of the time they only live up to about 50%.)
Now talk to maintenance.
Maintenance will tell you, you got what you paid for.

If you are tired of this kind of situation please give us a call. We are the 
Kaps-All Packaging System Inc. dealer here in the southeast. 
Kaps-All Has been areoud since 1942. This should tell you something.

Please call [phone number] if we may be of service.
  

Apr 23, 2015

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Jon Marco from Alpha Brewing Operations

Friends,
Great question.  It all depends on the manufacturer.  I personally buy my tanks from China from a manufacturer that I visited and have an engineer on-site to insect every piece of equipment that comes out of that factory.  We could not build a better tank if we wanted to and the quality is outstanding - Alpha provides a 2 year warranty on anything you buy from us.  All moving parts, SEW motors, control panels, valves, automation come from our shop in Lincoln, Nebraska.
International shipping is always a hurdle. Alphas Director of Operations, Mrs. Micah Pickinpaugh, has over 10 years experience in this field and can track any order in real time due to the network we have set up. 
Visit Alphas website anytime and request a quote:  www.alphabrewops.com
Cheers,
Jon Marco VP of Alpha Brewing Operations

Nov 26, 2014

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Wendy Ocean from Capmatic

It all depends on what you are looking to do and for how long... The common knowledge about Chinese products to be cheap has a lot of grounds to support it. However, if you are only looking for a quick fix, and have good internal mechanics, you could find good cost effective solution. Make sure to fully do your homework first... Once bought, service could get difficult.

Aug 20, 2014

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Ben Clingner from New Leaf Brewing Company

No!!! Everyone I have brewed with that has gone down that road was not happy!

May 27, 2014

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Chip Barcus from Kaps-All Packaging Systems, Inc.

There appear to be a few good Chinese manufacturers, but separating the good ones from the vast majority of fly-by-nights is a difficult, time-consuming and expensive process for an American buyer. Even if the quality of the machinery is acceptable there are likely to be support issues. The companies (mostly co-packers) I know who have success with Chinese machinery are the ones who have full-time maintenance staff, because it appears ANY Chinese machinery will require service, sooner rather than later. Be prepared to make your own parts if necessary because they may not be available from the OEM. 

Apr 15, 2014

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Peter O'Brien from Great Engineering

No it is not safe to buy equipment from China.
The Chinese can make machines that look like the original but that is as far as they will go. It looks like it but doesn't perform like the original. They will not invest in time to correct any design issues.
Example. I send one of our BenchMATE labelling machines to China with a good friend who is an industrial designer. He was setting up a factory and wanted to test out his workforce and also manufacture for me. 
The first sample came back and I would never offer something as bad to the market. He asked me to give it a score out of 10. I gave it 0
He made another. I gave it 3 He made a third and I gave that a 3.5
The third looked like ours but it wouldn't label straight. The Chinese will not check if a shaft is straight or if the stainless steel is pitted.
My understanding is that a third of the workforce changes jobs each year.
So the person who was responsible for your quality control may not pass on to the next person the full checking.
Finally another example. Bottles. We are seeing a lot of cheap bottles coming into the market from China. The accountants love them. However, when the bottles go down the production line they often do not line up with the filling machines and the filler comes down and smashes the bottle. Now the accountants hate them. Wasted product, down time and sometimes costly repairs to conveyor chain.

Apr 9, 2014

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Howard Murray from Wine Country Stainless Steel Tank Co

There are many good answers here. But they all beat around the bush. You ask is it safe. Statistically the odds are bad so the answer is NO 

Apr 1, 2014

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Mark Sigl from Kaps-All Packaging Systems, Inc.

Chinese equipment has come a long ways. However, Like any piece of equipment, you are best served to do your due diligence, by asking for references. It all depends on what the equipment is going to be used for:
1. Pharmaceutical - Not a good fit
2. Food & Beverage - Be very careful
3. Chemical - No problem
4. Industrial - No problem 

Apr 1, 2014

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Jill Simpson from BLEFA Kegs Inc.

1. Chinese steel is not as good as European steel. If you perform an elemental analysis of the steel, you will get an even distribution of all elements in European steel, but the Chinese steel will not be evenly distributed, and you will find large patches of different elements in different locations.

2. Most Chinese kegs are not pickled and/or passivated, which means that they rate very high in iron pick up tests. This means that beer out of the first few kegs will have a metallic taste. Pickling and passivating involves some very aggressive chemicals, which also effects the overall cost of the kegs. One of the reasons the price of Chinese kegs is so low is due to the inferior or non-existent pickling process. AB is dealing with this issue right now.

3. Chinese welds are not as good and often have uneven surfaces (harbors bacteria) or they do not have full penetration. The full penetration issue is the biggest. As the kegs get cleaned year after year, the cleaning chemicals, over time, will wear out the welds and the kegs will begin to leak. It is also not uncommon for the kegs to leak immediately. AB has also dealt with this issue in the past.
4. At Franke Beverage, we warranty our steel and workmanship for 30 years. What recourse will you have with a Chinese manufacturer if something goes wrong? Salesmen for Chinese manufacturers are agents, but Franke sales staff are all full time employees. If you have an issue, Franke can solve it, but the Chinese resolution (if you get one) will take a lot of time, especially for a small brewery.

Mar 25, 2014

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Shannon Lewis from The Compleat Winemaker

Every country has good and bad manufacturers.  TCW Equipment researches and meets new potential manufacturers in person.  We expect certain standards from our manufacturers.  If they meet those standards then we sell their materials.  If they can't meet our standards, they are replaced.

Feb 25, 2014

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Kim Doble from DTM Packaging, LLC

Availability of service, support, and spare parts and electrical parts availability are important in any machinery decision.  

Nov 13, 2013

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Greg Unknown from Asia Pacific Packaging

At Asia Pacific Packaging Inc, we base our reputation on Quality equipment imported from China. Dealing with a knowledgeable team can save hours of research, not to mention the hassle of trying to make connections with Chinese companies direct.
In today's world, the quality has to be there in order for the Chinese to compete in the North American Market. Our suppliers meet or exceed the expectations of our customers in all aspects of the equipment

Oct 29, 2013

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Mary Gooven from Ideals corporation

If you want to secure your data you should use <a href="https://www.idealsvdr.com">secure file share</a>. In this case it wil be safe. 

Apr 12, 2016

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Allan Yoza from Healing Noni, Llc

i have never ever seen or ever used a chinese tool, furniture, equipment or anything in my life!  its all show and no go

Oct 26, 2014

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